Venables...and those like him ?????

I will come back to you on this one. I haven't time at the moment to reply fully, so will do it later.

Love Gem xxx

Crystal,

the problem I have is I only know anything about this (and other) cases via the very slanted, highly edited, and opinionated reporting by the Press. They want to portray Venables as a viscous monster.

He may well be, but I am sure there is a counter-argument which simply has not been reported.

I am sorry, but I refuse to form an opinion from the highly emotive copy from a Press that has decided Venables is a monster and only print stories supporting that point of view. I need to know all the facts first.

This is one of several reasons I don't read newspapers any more. They don't report facts. They sensationalise everything. They have appointed themselves as the arbiters of Public Opinion, with little or no right to rebuttal. Just give me the facts. from all interested parties, so I can make up my own opinion please.

One of the problems in this country is people let the "red tops" do the thinking for them, and don't question what they read. A generalisation I know.

That said, if you are indeed correct, then Venables  is probably now and forever a menace to society and appropriate steps need to be taken.

Crystal, please don't feel I am having a go at you. You are quite right to have a strong opinion on this. I just wanted to say that I don't and wanted to try to explain why, at the moment, I can't get very heated about this man.

Love

Art xxxx

It certainly gave me pause for thought

Little Sally

a channeled message by Lee Carroll from Kryon

a Difficult Story to Tell, or Understand

I'd like to tell you about little Sally. Some of you aren't going to like this story. Oh, my partner [speaking to Lee], what I'm about to do is appropriate, but you've never channeled anything like it before. It will be over shortly, for I know you will feel it, and it will become uncomfortable, as the other Humans in the room will attest to later.

Little Sally was only three. Like many in so many cultures around the world, she was abducted--literally taken away to a dark place, by a man of low vibratory energy with a contract that most of you sitting here wouldn't begin to understand. For you see, all Human contracts with the other side are sacred. His contract was not predestined, but predisposed. He had a choice to change it... free will to follow a groove, one where he would meet little Sally. His name is not given, for this is about little Sally. Another time we will give the mechanics of his story, so you'll understand even better how such a dark thing could exist within the sacred scope of the love of God. He met little Sally, and in his own way, lusted for this child. That's why he took her.

When it was discovered that little Sally was missing, the community supported the parents, who were distraught. They all prayed with great fervor, and they went on their knees before God. They pleaded with the angels before them. They called the names of God. They went to the clergy for solace. All of the spiritual people around them prayed for little Sally to be safe and sound. They prayed to God: "Let this be a quick and non harmful event. Bring her back, please, dear God, bring her back. We pray for a miracle."

They asked the angels to be with her, and to help her in all that she might be going through. They asked that the angels would protect her and bring her back. They went on their knees, and they wept and sobbed, as loving parents do in a horrible situation like this. Then their friends came out and put their hands upon them and hugged them and held their hands.

Little Sally was discovered later. She didn't make it, and the details of what she went through would scar the parents' memories for life. When all was known, some of the friends who prayed so hard turned against God. They said, "What good is it when we pray, if it doesn't work? Where were the angels when we needed them? Where was our belief system and the power of prayer when we needed it?" Some discarded their angels, and many had to ask the question: "Where was God when little Sally needed him?"

And here's what I want to tell you. You know that Master who you sat in front of? The one who radiated wisdom, love, tolerance, and understanding? That Master has his third DNA layer activated! He would look at this situation differently than you might. That Master is able to weigh the light and the dark, and that Master knows something about little Sally that perhaps you didn't think of, or that the parents didn't think of, or the ones who discarded their belief didn't think of.
 

Here's another postulate. Regardless of prayer--regardless of potential angelic intervention, no outside entity on this planet can change the absolute free choice of another Human Being. Little Sally was connected to her Higher-Self in ways you cannot understand. In those moments that were the darkest for her... seemingly all alone, she called upon that Higher-Self and said, "Help me! What are we going to do?" And together on a level that is higher and grander than you might think a child could go, she and her Higher-Self reviewed what she had come to Earth for. When this review was over, the question was put to her from her divine Higher-Self: "Sally, are you going to go through with this? We can help you co-create distractions and circumstances, and perhaps it will turn our differently. The angels are ready. What is your decision?"

And between the divine Higher-Self and the lower-self of that spiritual group whom Humans see in a singular way, Sally made a decision that you will never understand, Lightworker. Sally stood tall within her divinity, and through free choice said, "We're going through it. We're going to do what I came to do." And with the synchronicity generated by the man who took her, they did... together.

Why should this be? Unbeknownst to you is what little Sally knew. At a level that was filled with sacredness, she knew that what happened in that moment would affect hundreds and hundreds of people. Some would have to examine their spirituality, some would have to get off the fence and decide what God meant. None of them would be unaffected. No. Each of them would have a reaction... one that might last a lifetime. The seeming sacrifice of one, in what seems to be a horror of an event, was poised to provide the enlightenment for many. And so "little Sally" wasn't so little. She was a giant among Humans... welcomed back into the domain of Spirit, into the fold. She participated in a grand party, turning right around and going back again as soon as it was appropriate. She even rejoined the same karmic group that she left. They never noticed, maybe wouldn't even believe it.

How can I describe this? The Lightworker will seldom understand it, but the Master will. When you begin to activate that third layer, your Master-hood begins to understand these situations. It sees the earth as all one item. It sees all situations and weighs them in appropriateness.

The Master weeps with appropriateness as a Human, but also the Master sees the overview. He knows that any difficult death of a child is far more profound for those left behind than for the child who crossed over. The Master celebrates what is going on in the heavens. He knows the "whys," and is settled with the overall picture.

What really happened? Little Sally's Higher-Self overruled all other energies. It overruled the prayers and the angelic helpers. At that moment, it was king of its own reality, and it made a choice that was well known within the layers of the DNA that we have not even broached yet.

The giant called "little Sally" had made her choice, and the heavens rang with the ramifications of it. Many were changed, and some found their divinity that day.

The Earth changed, too, and the situation went into the energy of the planet, and the balance between light and dark balanced itself slightly more to the light side.

In Love and Light

Sandra

I agree with you both Crystal and Art.  I read something in the paper recently that said the Human Rights Act should be scrapped and redone or revamped.  I feel that giving criminals like this a new life and identity at half a million pounds each time is definitely no deterrent to anyone else. Lesser criminals are not protected in this way so how ridiculous is it that the most reviled are. Another man is having his life destroyed because he is the same age as Venables and resembles him, but so far Jack Straw won't acknowledge that he isn't Venables. How is that fair or just?  If you don't want to be chased and attacked by vigilantes then don't do the attacking of others yourself in the first place.  I'm not saying 'an eye for an eye', but we all have free will and choice, and if someone is attacked by a vigilante then the vigilante has to take the consequences of their actions just as much as the original offender.  We are all souls in human form, and age is just a number this time round as the basic level of awareness is already there (child or not).  I understand your distress Crystal as I am also appalled and scared actually at such apparent evil,  but Art is correct in that we need to address both sides or else society is pretty much doomed.  People can, and do change, but if they get nothing but negativity the cycle will just continue. What use is that?  Of course the punishment should fit the crime and society should be protected, so if they have to stay in prison for most or all of their lives then so be it.  Their decision, their choice this lifetime.   No one escapes retribution for crimes whether in this world or the next I'm afraid.  But society has to take some responsibility for this too in that we are ignoring our own failures and allowing them to continue.  For example, it has been psychologically proven that certain video games and films are emotionally damaging to our children and normalising violence and sexual crime.  There has been a drip, drip, drip effect for many many years and we are reaping the effects of it now.  Children are the future and we are by default - by not standing up and being counted - helping to disturb their young minds.  I work in Social Services but I could never work in children and families because my views are so strong and I am too emotional about it all.  But I can even see my children's friends fall apart because of the way they are being brought up under the pressures their parents bear but don't conceal.  Life education in schools should include these sorts of topics, solutions sought, and most importantly of all the government take positive action.  Rant over.  Lynda.   

Some cases dont need to be sensationalised in the media they do it all for themselves.  I would not want to know all the facts regarding this heinous act.  Murder is murder and perverse is perverse no matter how many facts you add or subtract from the case.

I agree with Crystalclear in such open and shut cases as this LIFE SHOULD MEAN LIFE there is no rehabilitating pure evil.

Love and light

Deborahxxx

Ok Deborah,

so are you saying that all murders should be locked away for ever, no chance of parole? OK, not so in this case, but are there never any extenuating circumstances. If you killed your Partner because he beat you every day for 10 years, do I lock you up because you have murdered?

You see there were 2 boys who committed the original crime, and the other one has, apparently, rehabilitated. I take the view that it is better to letter a guilty man free than to lock up an innocent one. The justice system works pretty well, but, unfortunately the odd mistake does happen. Mind you if the guilty man then cam and murdered mu Mother I'm sure my view would change pretty damn quick, so may be it easy to take this view as I am not a victim!

I'm sure you are correct in this case, but where do you draw the lines that mean you are damned forever if you cross them? And how can to take emotion and subjectivity out of the equation so the rule is applied equally and fairly every time? By the way, you'll be famous and rich if you can answer that question!

Two more things to consider. Venables was a child when he killed, does the "throw away the key" rule apply to children who have only committed one crime? We only believe Venables is evil because he may have repeat offended.

Two, Venables as yet to be tried for the subsequent offences. Until then he is an innocent man, and we have to pause a while.

That said, I do believe Venables deserved his second chance, but maybe not a third.

I was also making a point about trail by media, ask Matthew Kelly!

Love

Art xxx

Hi Art

mmm... this could very complicated and i dont like to give judgement on anyone.  However i am speaking purely from a mothers point of view, a mother that cares deeply not only for my child but all children.  Unfortunatley Venables and his accomplice lost the right to childhood when they tortured and murdered another innocent child.

No i dont think we should lock all murderers away, however (theres that word again) in such exceptional circumstances such as these i really do think life means life.  Even if the other offender has rehabilitated i do not think that placing him back into a society that does not know his real identity is the answer, i for certain would not like knowing that i live,work or socialise with one that has bought pure evil into this world.

Im with you on the innocent until proven guilty but with such a heinous background why was he looking a such disgusting images? and as the old saying goes 'no smoke without fire'

Love and light Art

Deborahxxx

Hmm my reply dissapeared but i did think twice about posting it so hey.

Basically sandra wanted to thank you because this is how i view life thankyou love warmth and peace zo xxxx

Hi I do agree with Crystal Clear, I think life should mean life and that in this instance the crime was so horrific and down right evil that this person gave up all thier rights on that day when the crime was committed. OK he was a child, but sometimes evil does exist, and he was old enough to know it was wrong to torture to death a two year old, for crying out loud who would'nt know that at his age and younger. The cost to the tax payer of giving new identity and effectively a new life for him to re offend......where are Jamies rights and the rights of his family?

However, having said that,  I do agree with the point the press gears people up for a man hunt and no doesn't report sensibly or responsibly, depending on which papers you read the story varies for instance. I do agree with rehabilitation and feel each crime needs to be looked at on it's own merits, and the sentance applied accordingly. Not lock up victims for applying self defence and not let people out for good behaviour only for them to re-offend when the signs are there (which has happened in the past), but to offer the sensible sentance and appropriate care and support to rehabilitate when this is appropriate to do so. In this case I just don't think it was.  

Dear crystal clear,

I am addressing this to you because obviously you started this thread and your opinions are rather extreme and one sided.

Is this murder something you have studied deeply or are you just agreeing with the media - who's job it is to sell newspapers.

Now, don't misunderstand me - I think the murder of James Bulger was horrific. There is no way we can ever truly understand what was going through Jon Venebles and Robert Thompsons minds but the fact remains THEY WERE CHILDREN.

Children who lacked proper disipline and guidance and were allowed to watch violent films - how can you expect a 10 year old to have a grasp on reality when they are exposed to films like 'childs play'.

If you look at other similar stories you will find that many children that have killed come from a similar back ground. Mary Bell for example did not have boundaires and was allowed to do what she wanted.

People also forget that James would not have died if his mother had not left him - aged 2 - outside of a shop on his own.

It is easy to see things one sidedly and it is easier to believe that someone is evil than to see that they are a product of their upbringing and society - after all is it not every parents knightmare for their children to be  James Bulger or perhaps Jon Venebles and Robert Thompson?

thanks for all your honest thoughts,,i too a parent,, so thought are very strong on such matter, of sick monsters,, that do harm to innocents,, child and also adult,, no excuse..

these types seems to be easily slipping through the system

i understand if someone has been tortured by a partner of family member for years and fights back out of self defense..understand full, my own mother abused by my farther for many years,, she found strenght to leave, due to having me, if it hadn't been for her having me  she;d be dead by now,, killed by him,,,or she be locked up for kiling him in self defense against him..

so i know both sides of the story and i'm a trainee counselor,,so i know reasons on some people do through history of abuse..by parents or family members...so on,,,

art99 i dont feel offended by your words, on relpy far from it,, i know the facts,, i'm not new to this.. i remember very well when the james bulger was murderd, i was teenager,, that case horrififed me,,,and i dont do what so many are sucked into to doing,, to  believe the papers totally,, i dont i can tell whats been embelished and whats the truth of the matter... i make up my own what to take notice of and what not too,, james bulgers parents,,,their own words

and i did you see ion the papers the guy being victimised,,texts going round saying he was venables!! and gave the guys name and address,, i recieved one of these texts...i didnt do as it said ,, pass it on,,,,i felt something not right about this....and i was right.. it was wrong,, not venables...

same with hindley,, even it happened before my time,,, i took interest,,when press telly reports started reporting about her wanting to be releasesd,,(when i was a teengaer,, i actually was glad when she died, and gutted at the same time, as she never gave the details of the burial places, of cetain childern,, really felt for the parents,, such torture) again i did my homework...again,, my instincts tell me she no good,,,read her own words in a interview she did,,(some years before she died) sneaky cuning,my my blood run cold,,,,if you arn;t strong of mind body spirit, these types like hindley can fool even the most intelligent person...

as for the other child involved in james bulger murder,,,,who says he has rehabilitated?????seems the truth has been leaking out, that venable, himself had been acting out, drug abuse,,drnk  fights,,,remember this is no ordinary adult,,,seems like out of control,, and allowed to continue,, ihope he hasn;t harmed another person like he dod james bulger

,,,goverment would know every words, action he would make,,,however they coverd it up.. as they know they will be a laughing stock heads would roll...as the public would be disgusted..

and as the other lady says,, no smoke with out fire...they kept it quiet as they now want to make sure the case os dealt with properly,, no loose ends,,,to gaurantee a sentance,,,cant let him out into society again...i agree with that,,,let them do what they need to do legally to guarantee that he returns and stays in prison for life

one thing you need to know,, those 2 boys that day, had actually tried to take a child,, before taking james bulger!,, think it was either a few weeks or days before....either way,, those 2 arn;t safe in society and the EU,,was the get out jail card ofr life,, as they demanded their freedom,,,time lmited,, due to being children....

goverment need to get a back bone,,,have courage for their convictions,, and do what society, and james bulgers parents had demended LIFE sentance..

goverment need to wake up,, do whats best,, keep us as a society safe,,,as all there doing is giving other people like venables a green light to do as they please...

the light needs to win on this one,,,,,i understand the dark and light, and the darks influence,,,,i pray the goverment keep this one locked up for  good, and keep a close eye on the other one, (and all those on release, on license) and anyone else they let out, or gong to let out...the system needs to be reviewed...and people in goverment that have strenght in the hearts, light in their spirits,,fight for societys safety,,

enough is enough...

thanks all for replying...

sorry but views you have nonsensical....not the mothers fault..i pray for you such heartless words..

children,, you dont understand,, igrew up watching horrors fims,, dont see me  lashing out raping murdering people..,, please dont make out films give idea's to kill, if someones going to kill, they dont needan excuse or movie to help them...

i grew up in area where children (as you call them) did horrofying things to others, they now locke dup for good...just cos they are children,, dont mean they get off the hook...evils evil...dont matter what shell, you dress sit up in,,, wolf in sheeps clothing...

love and light.

I absolutely agree with you on this. When I was ten I knew the difference between right and wrong. Just as these two evil little monsters did. I dont care what their up bringing was. Its far too often an excuse that they had nothing, parents who were druggies or drunks.....no excuses, they took a life and not satisfied with that, they tortured him before they did it..... that little boy went through hell and they enjoyed every minute of his fear....they disgust me....im a mother, if they did it my daughter I cant even begin to imagine how I would feel. I get very angry that money crimes such as bank robberies are looked on more seriously. All premeditated murder such as this was, should be dealt the punishment of 'life', I mean life, till they take their last breath behind bars....whatever their age. Im sick of do-gooders making excuses for these killers. Why should one small party of people be able to decide when or if people like this go free ?.....so called psychiatrists that consider themselves the right to pass judgement.... it should be a refurendum of the public, they should decide on cases like this and if they did, you can bet your life there would be alot less scum like this released from behind bars to kill again....whatever their age ! I can only say, 'justice is the dark side of the law'  Kids or not, I have absolutely no sympathy for them whatsoever.

kimberley xx 

Dear Crystal,

oh dear, what a can of worms!

I hope I have not offended you (or anyone else).

Love

Art xxx

Crystal clear..you know i love you to bits but didnt want to comment on this thread :) :(

OUCH..horror films,violence...hmmm hardly pretty i agree but i and my best friends grew up on the stuff!!! And from the age of nine,maybe less  we often used to sit up with my dad and watch some quite gruesome stuff!!(me and my sisters and my bruv).

My best mate and i were constantly watching the exorsist,stephen king films,oh and chucky and psycho had to be the firm favourites back then!...Anything scary,gory,strong thriller elements!

I only read crime novels,and horror stories growing up too..Flowers in the attic had to be the tamest to get my attention and that isnt rainbows and fluffy red hearts :)

Now im all grown up i personally choose my media choices kind of carefully and i cant stand violence,hearing about it nor watching it.Scary stuff i save until im with my best friend because he,s alot bigger than me and strong enough to let me grip on to him when it gets a tad hairaising!! But i have a dad who loves real gore,a brother who loves manga and horror and a son who's nearly 12 and is much the same

I have the odd moan and long conversations with my son about the stuff he's into,films,programs,computer games..but kids(especially boys) love that stuff..(not saying all of them) Its built in,its the old hunter,cave man senario..much as id love my boys to take an interest in something lighter shall we say..i just cant prise the swords and toy guns out of theyre muddy hands..muddy not bloody.

My kids are certainly not violent and i didnt grow up to be a crazed killer either!! Saying that my eldest is old enough to know what is evil and what isnt!! He sat and cried when he heard what happened to "baby p" and got angry that an adult could do that to a child,not monstrous.."humanly angry"as it makes any decent person feel.

Its very sad that that poor soul was left outside a shop and that poor woman will never forget that,but it isnt her fault that he was murdered in such an awful way.In my (personal view)they  knew exactly what they were doing..but i just dont want to get into that as i dont have all the facts but i can see someones soul through theyre eyes,however old they are!!

My point is just that ,violent films dont kill people....We need to sort out the high degree of sexual reference and content for our little indigos..Afterall sex isnt for children either and Sex kills more young people than chucky fans do !!!!. Thats where the innocence is drained from them and come on if we,re honest the "watershed " means absolutely buggerall now..we all have the hormones that makes it easy for sex to get our attention and influence such young minds,more so than beating someone to death after playing the playstation??? Sorry im going off somewhere else now.Knew i shouldnt have posted :)_ love zo xxxxpeace and love guys

love to you crystal clear and glad you felt you could post this.love and warmth to all xxxx

Gosh folks what a very emotive subject this turned out to be.

Sandra - how very brave of you to post the 'Little Sally' story.  I keep an open mind with all things spiritual because we do not - and will not - know the true extent of how and why things happen in life until we pass on ourselves. 

Art - I'm sorry but I disagree that 'we only believe Venables is evil because he may have repeat offended'.  Whether he 'only committed one crime' or not, that one crime in itself was sufficiently evil- like without repeat offending ever again. 

Crystal - with respect I think you were a little harsh with Damara when she was pointing out that had James Bulger not been left outside the opportunity would not be there for him to be taken in the first place.  That is just a fact, and not necessarily blaming the mother.  Whose to know if it wasn't James it would be another child as you seem to say possibly happened?  

Damara - I still agree with you about the films etc.  No offence to you Zo but if we just let our children do this we give out the message it's okay.  A male reporter yesterday pointed out that 90% of violent and sexual crime is carried out by men - boys grown up remember - for the very fact that we expect it of them.  Or as you said Zo "it's built in" -but who builds it in?  WE do.   As I said on my earlier post above there is actual proof that we are desensitising children to horrors.  It would be interesting to see the statistics of these sorts of crimes before and after the advent of these brutal films and games.  Some childrens minds are more vulnerable/susceptible than others, so would it not be better for us to rid society of exposed violence and reduce/eradicate these crimes, or carry on and increase them? 

Damara is right to point out that it was the worst nightmare also for the parents of Venables and Thompson.  Another male reporter in todays paper debates this very topic including how Venables father 'sobbed inconsolably' in court.  He also pointed out the 'deprived and dysfunctional childhoods' of these boys; Venables watching of his fathers violent or pornographic videos; and the damage caused to them by adults which in turn 'engendered evil in them'.  Okay I agree the majority of people who are brought up like this do not thankfully go on to murder etc, but do we really want to continue playing a game of mind roulette seeing who will fall prey to the intermittant child/person who thinks it is normal behaviour because they have seen it played out so many times on screen?  I know were my money would be.......

Lynda.   

hi,, art99. thats life,,,  life is a can of worms....:) say it as i see it.as i see both sides,, all the good and ugliness of it,,,,,and the which side of the dark and light is being embraced

hi zoe, kimberly,,,,excatly no more excuses....

goverment need to address it,, hope they  find strenght and courage, to do so....system need to change....stop this slap on the wrist system...got to stop being afraid and fight for all our safety, against these types, stop allowing the corrupted EU interferring..

totally get what maitch is saying,,, sometimes, things happen for a reason,,(life is ike this as a whole,,,some things are minor changes that come through small trials...grief and others, major life changes, that come through horroifying actions)  ,its horrorfying but sometimes times, good can be built upon the horrors, some parents find a journey being placed in front of them and help others,, even fight the system to set up laws to stop these types, and protect the innoccents...

right now i feel major changes need to made,,,to protect  society. and james bulgers mother father to find justice through peace,, hope they allow her into the courts when , if there is trial,,, maybe that will be some sort of peace, face to face, with venables  ...

xx

I also think we need to be careful that we don't over-react and get to cautious. Life is hard, nasty and cruel. It is often it's own horror story. As much as we would wish against it, our children will encounter violence before they are teenagers (probably in pre-school!).

Children have to be exposed to violence, horror and evil to learn how to deal with it.

Now you have spurted your coffee all over the computer, let me explain that what I mean is we have to controlled exposure to such things.  It is about supporting them whilst they experience the bad things. Even fairy tales have evil and violence in them, and we read them to our babies (Snow White has an evil step-mother who tries to kill her, or in other stories the hero has to kill the Dragon, etc).

I certainly am not suggesting we teach our children through porn and/or rated-18 movies. But I grew up on (suitably rated) westerns and war movies. I watched Dr Who from behind the sofa, but this was safe, controlled "being scared" as I could always run to my Mum for comfort if it got too much. I think I turned out all right.

However, there are perhaps some parents who should never have been parents. For example having children as fashion accessories. But that, I feel, is a totally different thread.

Love

Art xxx

Hi I have been reading this from last night and I had to give it some time to think about it...

What I am about to say may cause more upheavel, but i sometimes wonder just how spiritual we are and how we percieve what being spiritual is?

Can we and do we pick and choose when too show compassion and give healing.....

I think we all agree that these crimes are unbelieveable to us and we could never understand why....because we have the mechanics in place to stop our temper, wanting control and fear, some don't have that shut doown button!     for so many reasons.

Anger, fear, control make people behave in appalling ways ( and children).

We scream at the TV nearly every day now and say " WHY IS ALL THIS AWLFUL STUFF HAPPENING"!  I was  moved by 'sally story'  and made me question my anger towards these people. 

Yesturday i noticed two very large brusies on my grandaughter  (6)and asked her how she got them....she said some girls tied her bike to the fence and when she road off the bike was pulled from under her and she fell off!  My first reaction was one of anger, then i felt sick to my stomach they had done this...

However I had to keep a calm mind, getting upset or angry only causes more pain for me and her....so my thoughts went on how to help her protect herself from 'nasty' people! Keeping her out of harms way as much as i can, but help her deal with the pain that life will throw at her.

And this is the hard bit SENDING HEALING AND LOVE to the girls involved as they are clearly lacking in kindness...and pray for them.

I supose again I question do we pick and choose....if we are so full of love and compassion for all things,..... do we   take everything situation into consideration??

love and light Debbie x

Hi crystal,

you have very valid points and action should be taken within the law to deal with criminals.  I and everyone feels your outrage on this subject. And thats what is so good about this forum that you can say how you feel without being JUDGED when the path you see is  not quite the same as others...

heavens we are a very diverse bunch here..lol...but again kindness is at the root of this foru m.. please don't take offence of what i am going to say, but as a counsellor you have to remain impatial ( even if I cant spell it..lol) and one day you maybe ask to consel someone like Venerables.....?? could you do it?

I work with children who have been damaged by adults and other children in the most crulest ways, and trying to keep that calm mind is a job in it's self but you cant help them if you don't.

I am sure you will make an very good councelor in time, and thank god we have people like yourself who want to help others

love and light debbie x

Hello all,just quickly wanted to say that there is a difference between watching violence and being violent. We cant build testosterone into boys by letting them watch stuff of that nature.

Its our responsibility as good parents and decent human beings to teach our kids right from wrong,by discussing these matters with them in an honest and open way.To not let them see whats in the world we,re merely wrapping them up in cotton wool and that in my view doesnt put them in good stead when they live in this world the same as we do.

Same as we walk the world with lightworkers,we also walk the world with dark entities. i dont think we can make excuses for evil people,they come in many shapes and forms and they are out there regardless..all we can do is educate,and try and bring our children up as balanced human beings.

My kids will learn more about peace and love than about violence because that is the way we opperate in my home and within our family.

Tom and jerry is violent isnt it? How far do we want to go with tameing our media choices.

We will never sadly,erradicate violent or dark acts,its essential to our evolution,its the balance between good and evil.The balance of life.I let my children be aware of such balance so as they too will find theyre own balance as they grow into adults.

There are those in the world who just are Bad,as there are those who are Good..I personally pray for both.But that is my own heart talking.

I dont give my young breed any such message that violence is ok,far from it..everyone knows how i feel about violence who are part of my life.But i wont stop my son from watching the things he does,he is just being a boy,its a dna thing,its not me installing anything into him.

I have 4 sisters,a brother,4 nephews,5 nieces,2 sons,one daughter I see the the male,female differences everyday..And the boys have always loved playfighting guns etc from very young ages,its totally natural and isnt man made,also not my choice.

Kids improvise,you neednt buy a violent film or buy toy guns,they pretend and they already know about that stuff

Lots of love to you all,love and warmth zo xxxx

Oh and i would like to see less violent films made because i personally dont want to see violence,violence and yet more violence...but its out there so lets teach our children why its wrong and not disguise it,and show them unity and love in our own family unit to shine onto the world outside of that xx

Hi Zoe,

I agree with you about the amount of violence and sex to be honest thats on TV and everywhere...why do people feel the need to watch it, whats the pleasure of 'saw 1,2,3,4, ' though some would say thats entertainment?? AS adults that our choice to make.

There was a experiment done , i didnt see it i was told about it though....they had 2 groups of kids , one watched violent films the others happy kids flims.

all the kids were brought together and i cant remember exactly what happened, but say some one fell over....the kids who had been watching the kids films showed shocked and went to help. The kids who had been watching violent films just stood and watched or didnt even acknowledge the incident at all...

speaks volumes doesn't it

love debbie x

I still haven't made my mind up about this. Yes at 10 years old I knew right from wrong. However, nothing has been said about the mental age of these two boys and those like them.

I deal with children who haven't had the best upbringing every day and I hope and pray that they do not do awful things to others-I'm not saying that if you have a bad upbringing that you are going to do something wrong. But as someone who used to love horror films and any blood and gore, I can truly say that I would never dream of inflicting any form of violence on others. I want to see the good in these boys, as even if there is only a little hope for them I would like to say it was there. I know that what they did was horrific and how you get to the point of killing another person is beyond me.

People have made some interesting points in this thread and as a mother it sickens me that this is even possible-my two brothers were of similar ages when they did what they did. The reason that I haven't just mentioned Venables is because there were two of them not just one. I don't think that they should have been given new identities and life should mean life when you have taken the life of another. But I am hoping that Robert Thompson is now doing some good for others and has been fully rehibilitated.

We only know what has been said in the media and I hope that James Bulger's mum has been told the truth and not just a media slanted version.

Lots of love and light to everyone.

Gem xxx

Yeah i agree with you..and hand on heart i totally encourage my kids to watch more "childrens stuff" than adult stuff and they do..but policeing society as a whole? Impossible im afraid,thats why i think balance and love and education is the key

Of course,i can only speak for my own family i havent the time nor the right to deal with everyone else's :)

The highly sexualised world to me is far more worrying!! And for many ligitimate reasons.

The experiment you spoke of is interesting.Got to say from my score..im a real hippy at home and always going on about positivity,light and love and thankfully my family are empathics,and very caring towards others which im very proud of.To think people, kids/adults could stand and watch or not even think about it is kind of sad isnt it :(

There again with my first child,i nearly had a cardiac every time he much as bumped his knee! and he used to howl at the slightest thing because i was so dramatic!!.With my youngest two im calmer..My friends may rush over howling "ohhh are you ok,oh dear bla,bla,bla "and it sort of upsets little ones more,if its not a very bad fall or what ever..im more like "come on up you get silly billy,look what youve done to my floor!" And they handle things much better as a result.

Im far from heartless,please believe me..I couldnt be more maternal! But i dont see the sense in over-dramatising everything..Afterall we all have scrapes its part of life..but i and my kids ALWAYS ask if someones alright? x And my eldest has held the door open for many an old lady..but he still loves street fighter :) xxxx

I think society has become complacent over time and not seen, or just ignored, the slow negative changes emerge which are not helping anyone.  These changes then become common place and eventually normalised.  Say like Tom and Jerry and so forth becoming a 3D cartoon which is more lifelike, so that it eventually blurs the lines between reality and non reality.  There are lots of research studies proving this, but I guess if they aren't read then people don't understand fully.  Debbie is right there was an experiment done and the outcome was scary.  There was a correlation made between watching violence and being violent - eventually - due to sensitisation.  Or the programmes you talk of Art and I remember - they are now tame, and not in a good way.  I guess it's that old nature versus nurture argument, but it IS man made to a big degree.  I did a dissertation on this some years ago which opened my eyes to it in a way I had never seen before.  From birth we are boxed, labelled, and assigned to the sex we are, from the colour of our baby blanket - blue for boys, pink for girls - to whether we are allowed to cry or not, and are expected to act and react accordingly.  I was gobsmacked at how deep this goes which is why I have strong opinions on it.  How we are brought up in our own family is also a strong indicator of our future.  For example my father bullied me, pushed me around, called me names (ugly bitch being a favourite) etc.  At around 8 I was assigned to a new pupil at school as I was so good.  I pushed her around but didn't know why (no hitting or anything else I hasten to add).   She was 5.  I have thankfully never done anything like this since and I would dearly love to apologise to that little girl (and I will one day).  I knew no different, that was my experience at home thus 'normal' to me.  Obviously as time went on I realised it wasn't because my father was a 'good cop', 'bad cop' kinda guy and I learned right from wrong. But if he had just been the 'bad cop' all the time AND I was constantly also exposed to violence and filth - what then?  We are kids role models.  I once went to chose a DVD with my youngest daughter and her friend who was sleeping over - they were around 10 - and the friend picked out a selection of 18 movies to watch.  I was horrified and said so, to the acute embarrassment of my daughter.  Her family allowed this.  I explained why I didn't, and as my daughter tried to change the subject her friend said "that's because you are a good mother".  Out of the mouths of babes.....

I know that forgiveness is a wonderful thing too on this topic.  My father was not a nice man so when he came back to ask my forgiveness when he had died and needed it to move upwards, I found it difficult.  However I did as he is not in a position to hurt anyone anymore.  Neither my brother or sister forgive him to this day so they are left with unfinished business.  However, could I forgive someone who hurt or God forbid killed my child?  No, I am not there yet.  I agree we can't wrap our kids up in cotton wool for there will always be evil, but why not use 'explained exposure' rather than controlled exposure.  Fairy tales did/do indeed include bad/evil people and deeds, but they weren't/aren't as graphic as the stuff nowadays.  And yes before you say it, imagination can be just as bad, but lets at least try to lessen it, not worsen it.  Our fault is to have an attitude of 'oh well never mind, it's here to stay, there's nothing we can do about it' rather than to keep trying.  I betcha everyone wishes I wasn't on holiday this week eh?  Don't worry, back on Tuesday!!!  Lynda.

the end of your post made me laugh :) I do get what you mean on alot of your points.

I too agree that its just been creeping in slowly but surely(violent media) and now its normal.I do see what your saying to quite an extent.

I dont like the news for its negative waves of blaaaaa,i dont like the way sex has also crept into everything the way it has, regardless of children.

if we were all to encourage more positivity and love in the world in general,would be a lovely,lovely free place and maybe we,d ascend higher as a whole on this plane..id love that

You may be very close to converting me to most of your views,sadly not exactly all of them...but hey we,re sisters of the universe arnt we:)

I agree say to NO to violence..we are put into boxes of comformity and is isnt always for the best is it.That is,man made!

I like you lynda you seem as strong a mind as me so im gonna let you have that one!

your last post made more sense to me :) love,peace and warmth xxxx

Hey Zo I'm not in competition with you, and I don't expect everyone to agree with me or vice versa - honest!  And yes, of course we are sisters of the universe - a lovely term.  But gosh, I made sense for once - miracles DO exist! You hit the nail on the head - aspire to more positivity and love and we are on our way.

P.S. I have just spent ages answering your dream thread only for it to completely disappear, so will have to think about whether you were meant to see it or not.  Most strange.

Lynda.

I think society as a whole is going in a concerning direction, kids gowing up too fast, not allowed to be children anymore, society driven by greed etc (know I'm preeching to the converted here) and there is an uncaring element creeping in where morals are lost. For example, anyone who commutes to London and gets annoyed when someone goes under a train cos of delay to journey (which I have done in the past - for about 30 seconds before quickly questioned myself, but the thought was there as that is how you get conditioned travelling in those conditions every day), society is twisted and going in the wrong direction if we're not careful. And problem children and adults will be a product of that. I guess thats where sensible governments and corporate parent should step in...

Agree kids who have traumatic upbrining will be likely to lash out and hurt others, and be troubled, that is the obvious reaction, compassion and care for others may have been numbed out. But to kill and torture another younger human........that is just too much in so many ways. 

I watched horror films without my family knowing when I was young, grew out of it but liked the shock factor, don't think films in themself are any excuse but could be a catalist to an already unwell mind. As could a lot of other things. 

Yes everyone does have the right to counselling and support but the teacher can only be effective if the pupil is willing to listen. There is pure evil that exists and it's how we manage this as a society and protect our innoocents to ensure justice prevails that I think is the crux of the matter here.

Despite the awful nature of this thread, you did make me smile, Dreamer!  You were nearly right:  "impartial" ( i.e. not taking one "part" or the other! )

Also "counsel" and "counsellor"  - othewise you'd be working on the local "Council"!

(And "cruellest" doesn't need a "most" in front of it.)

Bless you - hope  you don't mind, but I can't resist this sort of thing!

Love & Light,

Claudia

xx

Kazzie I couldn't have put it any better myself - I too am concerned about society as a whole and how its going.  We need to break negative cycles otherwise troubled children -become troubled adults - who become troubled parents - leading back to the beginning again.  Someone/thing has to step in and prevent this from happening.  Lynda.

Claudia,

Was a little disappointed considering the nature of the thread you choose only to see my poor spelling and grammer

Nobody else has mentiones it,  only you choose too...I wonder why? Do you not think it was very insensitive of you to be so public about it.

Glad I made you smile...love and light debbie x